Why Islamic people seperate them from rest of the World??

(This is written in the orkut community "Green Army" which is formed to transform Pakistan to moderate islamic nation. The community is started by a good friend of mine from Pakistan, Mr. Tanzeel)

I am a strong supporter of individual freedom and cultural independence. I respect the religious feeling too, and I myself is a relious person who respect one's culture and religion as one's identity. But I have a big question to you all, why do Islamic people differentiate between them and the rest?

Whenever there is message from Osama Bin Laden, he always calls for the Islamic people to fight against the american racism and supression.

Saddham Hussein called all the Islamic people to fight the invaders, when many european countries were aginst the invasion along with almost whole of Asia, wouldn't it be better had he called whole world to fight aginst this american aggression??

I am from Nepal, the only hindu kingdom of the world. The only non-secular state in the world where there is national holidays for all the four religions which are practised in Nepal. We have national holiday for Dashera and Dipawali (hindus), Losar(Buddhist), EID (Muslim), and Christmas (Christian). I have very secular feeling and I can openly say that Nepal is one of the most secular state in the world where many higher posts are taken by people of minority religions. Can this ever be seen in Pakistan??

I am following Pakistani news for some yrs and am excited to see the growth of Pakistani economy, but even the official sources show that the percentage population of minority religions are decreasing. Does this in someway show that there is religious racism in Pakistan??

Why did Yosuf Yohana changed to Islam converting his name to Mohammed Yosuf? Saying that its his personal choice is like saying press freedom by Europeans in cartoon controversy. What is the hidden reason behind this??

Lastly, the question to Tanzeel specially, why do u want to see Pakistan as "Moderate Islamic Nation" and not as "Modern Secular Nation"? Moderate means in the middle, why do u want to be in the middle? Why not complete development or complete modernisation??


Jehanjeb:
hello bhupendra...im from karachi-pakistan and i will try to reply ur questions but im not sure if im the right person to do so cuz ur scrap had lot at one time...so here it goes!

first of all with all due respect to ur religion...muslims n hindus lived together under muslims ruler for quite a few centuries and both faced almost saem invasions form time to time...in those times...things were simpler, lifestyle was simple, greed was there but yet each individual faced a trauma of knowing every other person within the so called city limits. i can not pin point the right time when the sense of individualistic identity rose and had this one poweful sector divided into so many countries...
islam does not teach ne1 to pick guns and create their own boundaries...around 1400 years back...at the time of our Prophet...his followers travelled great distances to spread the message of Islam...not to conquer countries. yes there were war fought at that time...even among muslims but those were between right and wrong. not in greed to take away something
now comes present time...today if u just accumulate allw ats hapenin...and narrow ur eyes to see things bit more clear...ull see that everything either done by non-mulsims or other non-muslim country is against Islam. just for reference and no hard feeling...was there ne destruction of mandir b4 indian hindus crushed Babri Mosque...was there ne 9/11 before US got hold of Suadi resources of Oil and still the rampage is going on...

and certainly there was no Usama or Saddam at that time...basic rule of survival...u talk to me...ill reply...u abuse me...ill try to adjust that...u get up and slap me...ull pay for that! but this went beyond abusing or slappin...it came down to sole reason of keepin our families alive...while there are many political decisions made to save our asses, and then there were many for which we are still paying by gulping down sour outcomes. some of our great antion forefather forsaw the coming results of great US built up and they tried till the end of their lives for a one united islamic nation block! well one of the reason for this was also that u look at atlas...Pakistan is the first Islamic country of the whole Islamic belt...if there has to be a bond then we are one for that...once the era of great leaders ended came the corrupt ones who made things worst for this islamic block...their foriegn policies made us break friendships with many islamic countries...we still have one fried and that is China but only God knows till when this wud carry on...!
so u see...us muslims have been pushed by our ownselves to this limit where we cant be part of the whole world and has to create an Islamic Block to survive...which till now is succeeding! ...im keepin ma fingers cross for that! and if u wana see muslims who r not even worth callin humans...do leme know ill give u links to thier thread here on orkut which will open ur eyes of how far some of us have gone just to fuckin please thier Father america!


My REsponse to Jehanjeb:

There is clash of civilisation going on always in this world, and all want the reason to crush other. There are some works done by some people to provoke and if in those acts we get provoked then we are not gaining but giving grounds for other side to act against us. It is in our best interest to be resilent and develop.

See China, it is not disturbed by anything that is going on in the world, its simply following the so called pig policy and its rising. When Talibaan destroyed the world's largest statue of Buddha what did Japanese, Korean or Chinese do? Nothing. China decided to build a new one, and Japan declared a project for the development of Lumbini (Nepal), Birthplace of Gautam Buddha. This has certainly benefitted them. Had they thought the event as attack on Buddhism then they would have lost their resources in fighting the unnecessary war.

The demolition of Babri Masjid was a real bad act of Hinduist govt in India, and they lost the election now and are out of power. Now, the same BJP is getting secular to get muslim's vote. Lal Krishna Advani, the man behind demolition has lost the post of BJP chief in his spate over secularity of Jinnah. All these are due to those extreme hinduist feeling in the party. For their act muslims around the world showing anger and calling for destruction of India, the country with second largest muslim population is nothing more than stupidity. Again what is happenening with the anger and war? The world's wealthiest countries with lot of natural resources are getting worse off. Actually many people do something to ignite the islamic world to control their development, they fear that if nothing nothing is done to disturb the islamic world then muslim population will control world economy and politics with their heavy resources (mainly oil).

I have found an exception in the Islamic world and that is Malaysia. Malaysia is fighting war aginst US imperialism and its attack on Islam but not the way other islamic people are fighting. They are fighting by forming a group, Asean+3+3, they are fighting the war economically and I am sure their latest step of forming World's Largest Economic Zone will be a bigger blow than 9/11 to US. This was a peaceful way and proactive. Malaysia has struggled hard to get its surrounding countries with it and now getting China inside Asean and calling India, Australlia and New Zealand as observer in the Asean+3 meet but excluding US is the victory for Malaysian. But I have hardly found any apraisal for this Hero Islamic Nation by the Islamic people.

Pakistan can follow the same route and go forward with enlarging SAARC and ECO, giving a big blow to the West. Its totally a mad activity what Iran is doing now, its the worst path to follow. West is more powerful than us and we have to admit it, we need to tackle them in cautious and polite way. We have to find differences in them and get their weakness and hit, but in such a way that leaves no marks. 9/11 is the biggest blow not to US but to the Islamic people of the whole world. With it US and its allies have already killed many muslims and invaded two countries. 9/11, 7/9 etc are not proving anything but giving the west chance to say that really the Islamic people are nothing more than terrorists.

I think it will be in the best interest of Islamic world if they can form a free trade zone. It will be better if they can move the way to form Islamic Union like the European Union. But this way doesnot seem to be the priority of any islamic nation.

Subsidy not a boon for economy.

(My Reply to Kunjan)

Hi Kunjan,
Let me shall try to answer few questions raised.

Let me make all of you clear that most of the companies invest in
charitable acts to get the tax exemtions. They can show any amount to
the govt as an investment and also for the goodwill of the company. If
investing in charitable act is in company's marketing preference then i
have no question. Once i happen to read about an company producing
"Mecca Cola" a product like coca cola and anounced the ten percent of
its annual profit to be used in providing homes to the displaced
palestines. The company had record sales of about 40% of the sales of
coco-cola in France and similar good results in many arab countries.
This is a smarter marketing more than a valuatic act.
TATA and Birla are having many business houses and they need fame in the
market for their products to sale. They expend very less in
advertisements than their competitors and still stand in market. The
way they do business is not with charity but "Corporate Social
Responsibility" and this is not an help but an marketing act.

How many of you are aware but its a truth than TATAs pay less then their
competitors now. TCS pays mere 12k per month (on hand) for the fresh
engineers which is far below other players. Most of the people join TCS
just to be linked to TATAs.

Regarding subsidy and the energy efficieny I have an interesting
historical facts. Let us share.
Once in 1970's there was energy crises throughout the world due to the
rapid economic development and fuel prices were rising. Saudia Arabia
is also blamed to make that price rise by decreasing the supply of fuel
to the market. Whatever might have caused that, the effects were far
more interesting than mere price hike.

Here are the actions taken by the govts and their effect:
1. UK subsidised the fuel cost.
The effect was that more and more fund was needed for subsidisation.
This made their companies in benefit but socail sector costs were to be
cut. The companies never cared about the energy cost as they were
getting at cheaper cost so were enjoying their rise.

2. Germany subsidised partly far less than UK and invested heavily in
alternative sources of energy like wind mills and small hydro power.
The effect almost the same as UK.

3. US declared an aggressive R&D for increasing fuel efficiency and
decreasing fuel dependency and invested more on nuclear energy leaving
market play its role.

4. Japan implemented import tax on petroleum products further increasing
the fuel costs. All economists were saying that in next 10 yrs Japanese
will crumble, people were againsting the move but govt didnt move back.
The companies started doing tehir own research to decrease the fuel
dependency.

The result is the Japanese and American economic imperialism of 80s and
90s. The energy efficieny in India is only 10% of that of Japan now.
What might have caused this?? The subsidy. And this shows where we are
haeding towards with subsidy.

Cheers.

Kunjan on my article on "Charity"

After reading the mail of bhupe i did not understand few points given by him
and moreover it arises the shortest question "How?".

Firstly, as he says "I dont believe in helping others. Help gives an instant
relief but it brings two big evils with it, first the expectation of getting
more and second the dependence.". Bhupe gave the examples of charity. The
explanation of growing India due to tata,birla IIT's,IIM's,etc etc... But
there r many children who r able to complete their education due the helps
offered by the charities.I say,these children may go to the IIT's and IIM's
afterwards and frame india's future. R u saying this bcoz we r fortunate
enough that our parents were able to provide us education???


Secondly about the subsidies given by inidian govt on LPG and kerosine.. he
says "Every yr's petro and food subsidy together is enough to build a
nuclear power station and think of us getting electricity getting as low as
50p per unit, how competitive then our industry would
be? ". Again we r thinking it that way becoz we need electricity. But what
about those who r not able to fulfill their basic needs. Can u think that it
would be very hard for them to even cook food if govt does not give
subsidies on kerosine.How can india progress by ignoring the poor people
which form the large part of the country. As far as LPG is concerned,people
are switching to LPG due to its low cost and handiness. This has greatly
reduced in use of "Fossil fuels" in the country.Thats i think is a rite step
foreward..........



The next point given by bhupe is a bit rediculous.. He says "Next part the
money others are using for their marketing products is being wasted by these
companies on charity. They will loose to their competitors and finally
fall.". This is not the way business is done. Birla has opened so many
charities for long, but it did not fall. bilra is not a fool to open so many
charities and helping organisations..


Hope I find the answer of these questions....

Charity - the weakness.

(This i had written in reply to my friend's proposal for starting Charitable work)

I dont believe in helping others, cooperation is a different thing
altogether. Help gives an instant relief but it brings two big evils
with it, first the expectation of getting more and second the
dependence. Sometimes earlier I used to think of equal society and the
commodity distribution, but later I found the biggest target of the
nation should be to make people optimistic and give them hope. People
may enjoy immense wealth, some may live in poverty but what makes one
happy is the hope that tomorrow will be better. More to that is
self-dependency, and believe in self that he can do better tomorrow.

I have seen many charity organisations help. I dont say they are doing
wrong but the output they are getting is not the best possible output.
They try their best to get best of what they can, i really appreciate
that, but wouldnot that be better had they been very successful in
their life materially. Dont call me selfish here, you can call me
selfish after reading next few paras if you really feel the same.

India is getting better and better day by day. What is making it better?
Is it the help that charity organisations are giving? is it the aid that
foreign govts are providing? is it the loans that friendly countries are
giving? or is it the subsidy that Indian govt is giving to support the
poor? None of these. India is transforming just because of the success
of engineers of premiere institutes like IITs, leadership by the
managers of IIMs, the competitive business environment grown by the
positive economic policies and because of the success stories of huge
indian business houses like TATA, BIRLA, Relience, Bharti, Infosys,
Wipro etc. This has created "Brand India" in the World. By which
foreigners believe in India and the Indians, and invest in India. And
most importantly every child sees people growing around him, getting
glamorous life style, and tries to get that. In that course he reads
well, tries hard to reach there and finally ends up becoming another
legend of the country. The best one man can do in his life is to do
gain as much he can, name, fame, ecstacy etc etc. This makes the people
more optimistic. And optimism makes one happy.

Protectionism and help degrades the social structure. I have an example
from Switzerland. Swiss govt subsidises agro products. That is the only
protected part of Swiss economy and now it has become only the black
spot of that economy. Every part other than that is going very fine but
farmers are slowing loosing and crying for more subsidies.
India has subsidised Kerosene adn LPG gas heavily and is wasting lot of
money on that. Every yr's petro and food subsidy together is enough to
build a nuclear power station and think of us getting electricity
getting as low as 50p per unit, how competitive then our industry would
be? How much we could save by this? The savings would then be invested
and economy will grow in other sectors too. The huge money that goes
foreign to buy petro products could then be built for irrigation
project in the country to support farmers. But nothing of this will
happen as we believe in help, the instant help and we tend to ignore
economics behind it.
Consider a situation, TATAs and BIRLAs helping poor by running a charity
organisation. The more they focus there they will ahve less time for
business is one part. Next part the money others are using for their
marketing products is being wasted by these companies on charity. They
will loose to their competitors and finally fall. When they fall they
will not remain so finally the charity house will close altogether.

Its a global average that for any work govt wastes 3 times more
resources than what private players could have done the same work. How
come this happens? This is due to the corruption that comes with
protectionism. Any charity organisation is run by the people and any
person can get corrupt at anytiime. In such activities where he is not
in a competition of loosing to his competitors, he may get into those
activities more easily than anyone. Further he has a cover of being
social worker which is a good mask for them.

In the Human Values book published by Vivekananda Nidhi, there is a good
sentence for the person to lead.

"Everything exist, because I exist."

Feel this sentence and give a deep thought. You may feel this sentence
as a materialistic view but Value specialists see it otherwise.
Everthing for you is there only when you are there. So you are the core
of it.

Think this .....

"I exist, because everything exist."

You may feel this as an spiritual thought and leading. Giving more
importance to the society. But this is not. This is undermining self
and this shows low confidence in self and dependency on others.

Charity begins at self. When we are enriched with more knowledge, power
and wealth then it will spread to the environment. This is what the
first sentence tells us. We must grow if we really want others to grow.
This is also called leading by example, and leading by example is far
better than leading by teachings and help.

Friends, I strongly believe that noone can win a war by killing the
enemies when the enemies are continuously produced. The best way is to
attack the production base and by helping poor we are showing a human
sympathy but we are showing other people that if they come to that
condition will get our help. This will make him carefree and one day
that man will come and cry for help. People will die and its the rule
of law. We cant stop that. We can give food to a hungry now, but what
about tomorrow. If someother peoson feeds him tomorrow then what about
the next day. He will get hungry everyday.

Now, coming to our main topic of thanking god and saying "oh god" and
all. It is just to show that we are still humans and have the feel in
self that this should not happen, also showing that I cant do anything.
I am busy doing something and hope that will help the world, god please
show them the path to live their life. This is totally logical and
valuatic.

"Charity is an excuse of the people who doesnot dare to think something
big in life. Thinking small is not a weakness, its a social crime. It's
simply passing the present day hardship to the coming generation."